Mark Mitten 0:04 Are you about to spend 10s of 1000s of dollars on custom cabinets, but are using an amateurish kitchen design? You better call Paul. Paul McAlary 0:17 Hi, Elizabeth, can you hear me? I swear Kailyn Welcome to our podcast. So I have to having me. Sure I have your design in front of me. Did you have a specific question you wanted to ask first? Do you want me to comment? Elizabeth 0:34 Um, if you comment on what you think of the design in general, that was one question Is it looks like it's functional? Paul McAlary 0:42 Sure. So I'm looking at it. And I don't they're all floor plans that you sent in? I didn't see any elevations. So do you know how high your ceilings are? Speaker 3 0:52 Yes, 109 inches, it's a home from a team windy. Paul McAlary 0:57 So 109 inches, which is 100. Really? 108 inches. So in this design, it looks like what they're doing is something I can't see the profiles. Are they doing this with just big giant doors? Or are they little cabinets on top and bigger doors below Elizabeth 1:15 big giant doors, I believe their 40s and 40. Paul McAlary 1:22 Yeah, that would be a silly thing to do, I would think so that's the first thing is that's not gonna, it's not going to look good. And it's particularly not gonna look good, because you have a lot of narrow cabinets. So these, you know, all of these big tall, narrow doors are gonna look ridiculous. So and they're all gonna work, by the way to probably. So I would say that if you're going up to 109 inches, the only way that and by the way, you're paying as much money as if you got stacked cabinets, you probably you could be paying a whole lot more money than if you got stacked cabinets. Because there are some less expensive cabinet brands that would sell 36 inches, 36 inch wall cabinets and 24 inch wall cap, excuse me, and 12 inch wall cabinets, all the sizes that you need, so that you could stack the two on top of each other. And then you'd have the little cabinets on top and the 36 inch cabinets below. And it will look much more proportional. And then these doors won't warp and you wouldn't necessarily have to be in a custom cabinet brand. And I always think that you know, you have in this picture, this gigantic beam that's running right through the middle of your kitchen. So before you start getting custom cap, and how low is this beam coming down, because it's Speaker 3 2:44 it'll only it'll only be like four inches, so it'll the crown molding is five inches. So it'll only be in part of the the crown molding. Paul McAlary 2:56 Okay, so the action, in this picture they have, you're getting 46 inch high cabinets, which would mean that your crown molding, so I guess maybe the first design I got with the 46 inch cabinets, they got, I guess crown molding and everything staying underneath the beat, I guess that was why they went 46 whereas, or I'm not really quite sure. But if you're going to 109 inches, you would want your cabinets to go up to 48 inches, and then have a seven inch crown molding top. Okay. And it would be a stack crown molding. So that one piece would be a flat piece, and then the other piece would right up and down on it. But when I ever see a big giant beam coming through the middle of a kitchen, that's really going to ruin the a lot of the extent aesthetics of your kitchen. The question is, is you're getting such expensive cabinetry, because you're getting custom cabinetry. Is that why Why spend money on that, and that spend a little bit more money on construction first, and get the weird thing out of the roof? The way that you would have a couldn't, Speaker 3 4:08 they will since the houses from 1890 would not recess the beam any further in up, then well, Paul McAlary 4:17 you know, that's only because they haven't thought of a way to do it. So there's lots of different things that they could do. I mean, if they couldn't recess it, you know, the one thing that they could do is instead of having the beam go I mean this this beam in the picture is coming out of nowhere before it starts going across your kitchen. You could first of all have a beam that goes from like the wall that comes out next to the refrigerator that sticks out that's also sort of strange, right that will that sticking out there could have been going all the way across to the other side of the room over the doorway I guess it would end up on On the other side of the room, and then you could then have that be the main beam, and then this beam would just be from that point of that beam to the other one. Or if the beam Speaker 3 5:12 is, it's already there, set construction is already complete. So beam was already in place, Paul McAlary 5:20 I think this fits, maybe what I do is, right? If the thing comes down four inches, and you lowered your whole ceiling down to four inches lower, then you now feel weird. You have no weird things happen in your kitchen. And so I always, Speaker 3 5:40 that's, that's a good idea, I that definitely can be done. I didn't even think about that. Paul McAlary 5:46 So I always say that the first thing you try to do before we even start designing a kitchen, or as we're designing the kitchen, is we want to de funkified Your house. So you know funky, whatever money you spend, end up with funky, you're it, you're not going to get full value from that renovation. In fact, you're really get only a tiny fraction of the value, you could and the other thing that's very difficult to to give you really expert advice is that whenever somebody sends us kitchen designs, the kitchen designers never, you know, unless they work for us, our kitchen designers always show us the whole area that's not really part of the kitchen. So the rest of this room, you must have a table I think and backup your island or something that's there. No, Elizabeth 6:35 there's there's a wall, there's a chimney that can't be removed. Paul McAlary 6:40 So what happens with this? So what's on the bottom of the picture? It's just a wall that the contract with the designer didn't put it with doorways and Speaker 3 6:52 the dress the directly across from like, where they think is that what you're referring to? Yeah, they Paul McAlary 7:00 have a wall that comes out 60 inches, but then it's just a big, huge open space. Elizabeth 7:05 And then there's a chimney chimney after the 60 inches, then it's just open, that's a walk of walkthrough, like Paul McAlary 7:13 and then what's after the walk is just a hallway? And then. Elizabeth 7:18 Um, yes, and there's like, an open area that leads to the outside. Paul McAlary 7:25 Okay, I think you really, for us to really give you good advice, we would need all of that information, because you've Is there a formal dining room in your home somewhere. Speaker 3 7:35 Um, it's on the other side, if we want it like on the other side of that chimney, back that way. Paul McAlary 7:41 So you don't really have you've got this big kitchen, and you've managed to put an island in it. But again, if you listen to our podcast, I always say this over and over again. But if you go to a restaurant, and you ask to sit at a table, you you say we'd like a table for my party of four. And the restaurant says, Well, you have to wait a half an hour for a table, but we can give you seating at the bar. almost everybody's waiting a half of that. So your kitchen is very undesirable to most people. Because the only place you can sit in it is at an island. And everybody can't face each other. And only a couple of people can face each other. And then the you know, I guess in the original design, I don't know where that's because you got the two windows on the angled wall. Is that like doors, sliding doors or something on the right of those windows? Or what's, what's that opening? Elizabeth 8:47 There? Okay, so there's two, the two windows, yes. And then there is a french Unknown Speaker 8:53 french door that goes out to a deck. Paul McAlary 8:56 I think what you want to do with this kitchen is redesigning it. So you haven't eaten area, which is probably what it is now that you've decided that you're going to an island, and then you put an island in that you can eat that. But now the rest of this stuff is people can't sit facing each other in the next door should really probably be sliders, so that they're not opening into the space. So that you know you can't really use it. If it was a sliding French door, instead of a French door that open. You could have a table there and it wouldn't be bumping into anybody. If you're opening the slider to get out to the deck. You could have a screen door and your doors wouldn't be folding and need to fold back and get out of the way of the table. Elizabeth 9:39 Right. That was the original Paul McAlary 9:42 Eden. That was the original. Unknown Speaker 9:46 Yeah, before they took down the wall. Paul McAlary 9:49 Yeah, you know, I just think some version of that would work better. And then you could possibly still have an island the First thing I do is I lower the door that's to the left of your sink. Now that goes, Speaker 3 10:07 that goes, because that's a stairway that cannot be changed that goes upstairs, that like Paul McAlary 10:12 the maid's quarters or something like that. Speaker 3 10:15 It's just another way, it just makes a really quick turn into the main staircase. But we don't want to shut that because otherwise, you'd have to come from the kitchen on way over on the other side of the house and come through the living room and dining room. Paul McAlary 10:32 So you know, I just said that this is this whole design looks essentially like what it is, it looks like, here's the space I have. And here's how I've jammed a lot of stuff into it that I want. And, you know, whatever this device, whatever the sacrifices that you'd have to make to make it normalize, whether that to get at a table, or maybe if you close this got rid of the staircase to the second thing is you'd have that inconvenience, but suddenly, then you'd have continuous countertop around that corner. And then your table, you could have a table and an island and other things. But just the decision making of how you arrived at this design is exactly what I said, this is the space, I'm not changing my space, I'm putting, you know, I have this beam coming across, I'm just gonna throw all these things in. And it really looks like that. You know, if you put the island in, if you put the sink in the island, and you centered the stove, once you lower your ceiling, if you made the island deeper and put the sink in the island, and centered the stove on the back wall, and maybe put a pantry in the corner and the refrigerator and you could make with the refrigerator area bar area, those wouldn't have the sink in front of the window, they'd have the sink in the island, you might even have told the designer you didn't want to sink in the island. But you didn't realize that the result of maybe not doing that design was that it sort of looks very forced. It really it really, and that's the definition of it not, you know, no one's photographing a kitchen that looks like, it looks like it's sort of forced into this space, you want it to seem like oh my goodness, it's always been this way, this is the way it was meant to be. And so how you accomplish that is going to require some sacrifices, right? You can't, you can't let your desires drive the design, you sort of have to let your space drive the design, and you make the best use of the space. And then that's the best kitchen for it really. And I think that eliminate i Well that's the thing is, it's hard for me to give you a really good advice without knowing exactly how far back because the first thing I think I would do is if I had the whole space that you have, with the walkways and everything else, I would first put a table in it so that I could have an eat in kitchen so that my home was I wouldn't have to advertise my home is no eat in kitchen, that I could actually have an eat in kitchen, or have the island have a table attached to it or do some way where people could all face each other, at least on three sides. And it really had an island that's less so much less desirable. But I can't really do that, because I don't have all the dimensions. So I see the chimney that's there. But I just need to know what's on the bottom, what's on the bottom of the of this room, so that I can plan the rest of the space. Okay. And then you know what else, if you're lowering your ceiling, to eight feet, whatever to 104 inches, or something like that, you could also get 42 inch high wall cabinets which are standard. And then you could get right, they'll go to 96. And then you could have eight inches of molding on top. And then all of a sudden your price of your kitchen just went down 10,000 or $12,000 Because now you've got standard sized cabinetry and larger nice moldings all going up to a ceiling that's flat. So I mean, it's just that way I start where I start is leveling my ceiling. So that it's normal, getting rid of that big giant doors, reducing my my cabinetry to standard sizes, then if you want to get expensive cabinets, you still can do that. But it's still the price of your kitchen dropped significantly, but you actually could be in a much more reasonable cabinet. And then I read I rethink the design second, but do that first. And if you want to rethink the design, if you can get the designer or somebody to get the rest of the measurements for this whole space to us. Then we could really come Elizabeth 14:46 in habit. Yeah, okay. Paul McAlary 14:49 So they haven't put it in the picture. Okay, so yeah, you put it in the picture. Like if you're one of our designers, we can't review anybody's work. unless they give us tight space, so you get you get in trouble. Well, you know, if you had to keep on doing it, you're gonna get fired eventually. But if you're not sending us all the spaces, we can check your work. And not only that, the computer can't check your work. So if we don't have the back wall there, so that all the measurements all meet each other, you never know if the designer made a mistake measure. But once you have the whole open space around it, then you'll know the walls won't meet, right? They won't align if the designer made a mistake, measure it. So it's also not only does it allow us to be able to judge design from our designers, but it allows our designers to have their measurements checked by the computer. So none of that is happening in this design, because it doesn't have four walls. Okay, my wife can tell you she's heard from my office, she's heard many times and he's screaming, where's the fourth wall? Speaker 3 15:55 I guess that would lead into my next question is that we're obviously feeling like the designer doesn't have a lot of experience in with kitchens. But we didn't really know that until now. And we started this process in November. So it's a little frustrating that we don't have a final kitchen yet. So what would be expected with the design presentation is like a 3d image or a colored image with all the sizes and things of the cabinetry, like a normal expectations for a presentation or is that Paul McAlary 16:28 you should, that's what she's designed it in 2020. So she should be able to show you if we don't give out the plans and the drawings and the views to our customers until they pay us a whole bunch of money. They have to put 20% down, but we show them to him to customers for $150. So they just have to be audited. We'll measure we'll do all the designs, we'll have a few appointments, and then you know, hopefully get the kitchen pretty close to the way it's going to be. But you want to see it in three dimensions and in color. And then everything else that's that should be the software this designer is using does that they never showed it to you that way? Nope. Well, it's actually the computer does it. So I don't know why they wouldn't show it to you. Maybe they gave you the one thing that the floor plans that are the one thing that's sort of in some respects, the most valuable, but it doesn't really help you visually visualize it. Speaker 3 17:23 No, not at all. It doesn't matter. I just cut out paper drawings of it and put it on my wall to see what it was trying to figure out what it looks like. Because I just don't have really a good idea. Paul McAlary 17:35 So is this a Lowe's or Home Depot or someplace? Elizabeth 17:39 No, it's not. It's a high grade can't Paul McAlary 17:41 be a Lowe's because you got custom cabinetry. Yeah. So yeah, Speaker 3 17:45 no, it's not. And it's. And it's hard because we're remote, my husband's retired military. And this is like our forever home. We're moving for the 16th time. And we're doing this remotely from Washington, DC. And it's just really hard. The house is going to be in Rhode Island it houses in Oregon, but we're in Washington DC, okay. And just trying to do this remotely is difficult, we try and go once a month to check on it and see, but yeah, it's a lot, it's really a lot trying to figure it out. Paul McAlary 18:17 Perfect is obviously quite very, very much an amateur, just like with the refrigerator area that you've got, they have this two panels on the side of the refrigerator, and then the refrigerator sticking out by itself. So even our office administrator here that's sitting next to me and she's in the process of becoming kitchen designer, she knows that the first thing you do if you're a kitchen designer, is put all the toll deep things if you can in a corner and that what you don't do is have the refrigerator sticking out and then some cabinetry on the left side of it. And then another bunch of cabinetry on the right side of it that you're creating this funny different space with two countertops. So what you want to do is probably put, you put a pantry on the left side of the refrigerator but a pantry on the left side so it would all be closed in and the refrigerator would look built in and you'd and you'd maybe have the entry level be a little bit narrower. So you had a little wider cabinetry for the countertop area on the right side refrigerator and then your refrigerator doors would open and they wouldn't open across a countertop. And you wouldn't have this difficult look that if you stood at and tried to use every time somebody opened the refrigerator, they would hit you with the door. You would then have the door just cover the pantry when the door open. But it's sort of like kitchen design first step of kitchen design you wouldn't do that. So this person probably hasn't been doing it very long for at all. Speaker 3 19:49 Well the pantry is that 36 inches next to the the chimney. So you do see that like 36 inch space next to what you're referring to, it's like the next wall over Paul McAlary 20:05 the next Panther. You mean a pantry in that in that room on the on the other side? Speaker 3 20:14 Yes. So it's flush to the wall, and then it says 36 and a fourth inch. Then you go into that. And that's the pantry. Paul McAlary 20:22 I mean, is a doorway with that. 36 and a quarter inches. Yes, Speaker 3 20:26 there's various there's like a at 32 inches, there's a doorway, the doorway, there yet. Paul McAlary 20:33 I'm saying she, but I'm guessing she doesn't even have a door there. No. So yeah, so even if you had a door, there still doesn't matter. There's no reason for a countertop being there. Just put it put a pantry cabinet on the left side of the refrigerator. And then you don't have that funny space there. And if you have a door to the pantry there, that's fine. But when you're getting custom cabinets, I could design this kitchen if you lowered the ceiling in a really nice cabinet brand, when and all of your cabinets would be under $15,000. So why you're spending maybe $30,000 on custom cabinets, and getting this very convoluted design is a gigantic waste of money. Right? So we should be well. Elizabeth 21:21 That's good information. This is the problem is it's a it's a risk cut white oak. And that's very difficult to find. Yes, Paul McAlary 21:30 now you're in a really a kind of cabinet. That's beautiful. You're only going to be able to get it in custom cabinets. But why get custom cabinets and have a design that is amateurish, right. So don't get the most expensive, I was just yelling at one of our designers last week, his customer was getting ripped cut white oak cabinets, okay, and he was leaving the soffit the customer wasn't taking the soffit out over the tops of the cabinets. They were they were trying, they wanted to save money. It's like they're getting $30,000 in cabinets from us take out the soft, I don't care if there's plumbing up there, it's not going to cost more than $1,000 to take out the soffit Don't Don't be having us sell your fifth $30,000 in cabinets without fixing that first, right. So yeah, don't get ripped off cabinets and have the beam coming down in your middle of your room that designer needs also needs to be up to the task of the fancy cabinet design, the fancy cabinet choices you're making. So but maybe come back to us after you got the rest of the design. And we can play around with it a little bit more and whited out and then give you but you know, I don't want to invest too much more time, just because I don't know exactly where I would put a table if I was gonna do that. And what other changes. But even if I was going to do the island, I would almost certainly lower the ceiling. And I probably sent I'd probably put this the sink in the island and make the island deeper if I had to, but put the sink in the island so that the stove could then be centered on that long wall. And then design from there. But once we get the other dimensions if you can get it to us, then I can really see. That'd be fun. Yeah, it's very easy. I mean, you don't have to do it on the computer. I can just wipe out all the cabinetry. That's their sort of hand draw into the space what what I think is going to fit and then then the designer could take it from there. Okay, okay. Okay. Elizabeth 23:37 So thank you. I really appreciate your time today and your wisdom. Yeah, it was very enlightening. Yeah, I'm Paul McAlary 23:43 sorry. I'm well I'm very blunt. And I apologize. No, Speaker 3 23:47 I appreciate it. That's That's why I called to get to get your opinion and I appreciate it. Paul McAlary 23:53 Yeah, and you know, even if it's only you know, even just lowering the ceiling down and lowering it all down the four inches that's a huge going to that's going to be it just a huge difference and making the cabinets smaller so that they're not this really unusually gigantic height Cabinet will just look so much better with nice molding. Elizabeth 24:12 Okay, okay. That's helpful information. I really appreciate your time today. It Paul McAlary 24:16 was good talking to you. Elizabeth 24:19 Take care. Okay, thanks. Okay. Bye. Mark Mitten 24:23 Thank you for listening to the mainline kitchen design podcast with nationally acclaimed Kitchen Designer Paul maxillary. This podcast is brought to you by Brighton cabinetry, high quality, custom cabinetry at competitive prices. For more on kitchen cabinets and kitchen design, go to www dot mainline kitchen design.com Transcribed by https://otter.ai