Mark Mitten 0:03 Are you about to order kitchen cabinets? For a kitchen? That does not work at all? Well, then you better call Paul. Paul McAlary 0:16 Hi, Loretta. This is Paul from mainland kitchen design. Are you there? Loretta 0:20 Hi, Paul. Yes, I am. Can you hear me? Paul McAlary 0:23 Yes. Welcome to better call for calls with Paul, depending on what we're calling it that day. Oh my gosh, I Loretta 0:30 think I read every blog post and every comment on everything I do have say it was a breath of fresh air. Can I just say we've been noodling over this kitchen remodel since we moved into this house two years ago. And it just was hard to get information that made any sense. And that was the other stuff in my house when I was so excited because it made sense to me what you said, and it sort of synced with what I felt like what I was observing, so Oh, it was so great. Thank you so much. Paul McAlary 1:01 All right. I'm just bringing up just unzipped your files. So now they're unzipped. I'm just going through now. So this is the are they all the designs that the designer came up with? So is that all the pictures that we're going through? Are all 20 printouts? Okay, so that one, maybe I'll print out this one. All right. i The one thing I don't have here is I don't see anywhere, is we don't have any measurements. So we don't have a top down view. I can't really tell what the distances are that you're leaving. Loretta 1:37 So yes. I know she hasn't given me those. She's waiting for me to order my cabinets. Well, you could make a right? Paul McAlary 1:47 Yeah, well, if you measured your kitchen, like the one measurement you would really want would be how far it is from the wall that is on the refrigerator, the refrigerator is on all the way across the room to the wall that the sink is on. If we had just that number, we wouldn't really know if this really all worked or not. Loretta 2:11 Yes, I thought you were gonna ask me that. So it's 166 inches, which is just shy of 14 feet wide, the whole kitchen wall to wall Paul McAlary 2:20 166. That's perfect. And it looks like you're one night mean, that's perfect that we have the number. Okay. So that would that would be a kitchen that I would say does not work at all. Loretta 2:38 I knew from what you had written, right? Because people can't sit like what you said people don't sit at that island and you can't open a refrigerator. Paul McAlary 2:44 You can't you can't even open the refrigerator. Even if nobody's sitting at the island. If you stand in front of your because you are you're you have you've got a total of the distance like that your countertop comes out on your sink sights, you have 166 inches, so I'm gonna first subtract the distance that the countertop comes out on the same side, which is 25 and a half inches. So 25, right? Plus, so right? So then I'm going to subtract How far does the refrigerator come? Well, I know that the refrigerator comes out 24 inches. If I say how much of these doors is going to come out, they're gonna come out probably another three inches or more, you know, more than three inches when you include the handles, but let's just say it's three inches. So we're gonna say 23 is 27. So I'm taking off 27. Again, so 166 minus 25.5 minus 27 minus and then how big is your eye? So your island in this picture? I'm looking at looks like what do you got on the backside. This island looks inordinately deep. Let me see if I can go back here. So you have cabinets on the back of the island. So right your island countertop is going to be your cabinetry for the island is 36 inches, 36 inches of cabinets real I mean really 24 inches by 36 on the backside, plus you got three inches, three inches of overhang an inch and a half on the front side and inch and a half on the backside. So that's 39 minus 39 equals so you're left with 74 and a half inches of space. That's not Oh, stuff, and we say let's say we want to split that space evenly divided by two. You have 37 inches and a quarter inches between the countertop, on your sink side and the countertop on your island side and between the countertop on your island side and the refrigerator doors. So you can just take a tape measure, measure 30 seven and a quarter inches in front of your present refrigerator and put a chair there, just and then try to open your refrigerator. And you'll, you'll find that even without anybody sitting there, and even without a chair that has made in this picture, they have a back on the chair. So when you push the chair in the back of the chair is still going to stick out two or three inches. So you won't even have you're only going to have 35 inches. So you know, this, this kitchen, this kitchen design this way, flat out doesn't work. And it really would, I would say, even though it is the thing that people want, because everybody wants this island and wants all of these. When you if you actually did this, and then you went to sell your house, then even though it would be attractive to look at when the real estate agent and the husband and the wife and their mother in law all came over and walked through the room, they'd all be get stopped and could have to turn sideways to get around each other and everything else. So I mean, it wouldn't. It would be a space that would you know, frustrate anybody. Anybody walking through it. And certainly for you working in it. It's what's we have a name for a kitchen like this. It's called a one cook kitchen. Only one person, kitchen at any given time. Because Loretta 6:19 my gosh, that's horrible. Yeah. So no, I'm Italian, I'm a little Italian lady, and I want my kitchen full of people. Paul McAlary 6:30 So this would totally clog things up. Anybody sits down at your island, you now can't even get in the refrigerator at all. Because you only have one yet when somebody sits at the island, they're going to be to 24 inches and back. That means is only 12 inches to open up the doors. Oh, is there 18 inches on the roof if you get a French door refrigerator. So yeah, so I mean, it's, this is a very common kind of thing that we'll see. It's sort of what like, what would be the word, I guess wishful thinking, Is that Yeah, this, this makes it looked like you can get so much in your space. But it's not really realistic. And then there's other things that really don't work either in the design. I mean, other than the fact that the design is attractive, is the good part. Beautiful. There's other things like how long is the island? You know, I'm looking at the cameras Loretta 7:28 and feet. Yeah, it's 11 feet long. Paul McAlary 7:31 So if it's 11 feet long, then you know that granite and quartz in the normal colors only comes in 10 foot lengths. So what that means is, is only a few colors that will cost double the price that will be available in 11 foot, oh my Loretta 7:50 gosh, no, no, no, no, I'm not No. Paul McAlary 7:54 So you want to make your island 10 feet long, simply so that you don't have to have a seam in the middle of it. And by the way, if it's 11 feet long anyway, it's so 10 feet as long when it's 11 feet long, not only are you going to pay double for the countertop, it's pretty much an aircraft carrier in the middle of so Loretta 8:18 So I worry about walking around a friggin thing. It's got me I'm gonna have to walk a marathon every time. So that is funny Paul McAlary 8:26 you with your with your kitchen, the unfortunate solution that you have to do to make your kitchen really work is either when if these are the dimensions that you have, you're what you really have to do is you have to make your island significantly shallower. And the way a lot of feeling well you could still get seating but you're not going to it's not going to be as an attractive an island only because as it gets thinner, it sort of looks a little skimpy. So a lot of times what people would do is they just get six more inches out of it. So then that would still not be that great because if I take the 37 inches and I add three inches now you're going to have 40 inches between the refrigerator and the countertop and between the countertop and on the island and the sink, but you won't be able to sit at two ends. So what you would do is you'd make the island and you'd put 12 inch deep tablets that were 30 inches wide on the ends of the island to close in the sides. And then you'd make the middle cabinets on the island. I don't know if you're following me. Only eight Yeah, you make the middle cabinets 18 inches deep. And then the chairs could go in back at them. And then you it's the island substantial as it does now. Because from the sides it's still going to look like 30 inches of deep cabinets. So it will look good from the sides. But it won't look so good. can be, and then you'll you'll get six extra inches but it's still pretty tight. It's still, you know, you got 40 inches now instead of 37. So there's no question that the design that really works the best here is doing a U shaped kitchen with a peninsula. Oh, you'd have the peninsula come off the tide where the sink is. And then you'd sit at the back of the peninsula facing into isn't your like, right now? Do you have a table sort of where the end of the island is in that space? Loretta 10:32 And the island is very oddly shaped. Sort of a Island kind of sits catty corner that, like it goes, Do you know what I'm talking about goes diagonally. It's just really horrible. Paul McAlary 10:46 Yeah, and it creates a lot of really strange. But so but you do have to have at the bottom of this picture you have, right now, a table with an eating table. So when you've actually extended your island this far, and extended your cabinets on the sink side this far. Now you can't have a table anymore. So Loretta 11:09 because I have a dining room that's through the opening adjacent to the cooktop, and I also have a sunroom that is sort of, I'm looking at Oh, for the view that you're looking straight at the sink to the left, there's an opening there. That's a little sunroom. And that's where I'd like sort of my, you know, bank practice room to be okay, well, I don't need another place. So that was what sort of gave rise to this. I don't need another I don't need any seating in the kitchen. Paul McAlary 11:40 Well, I would say the dining room was no problem. But it definitely if you're you know always as long as this in the sunroom is sort of an extension of the house, like to the left of the glass door wall cap that you've got is that the sunroom that direction, the glass door, like the glass door like this sink, on the left of the center of the big opening, you know, going towards the left one, then you have the glass door cabinets on the end and a big opening, that's where the sun Yeah. Correct. So that's a really nice place to eat. And so yes, that all works, and you no longer need a seating area, if that's what you're doing. So you really have I think you have a couple of solutions to your kitchen. One would be to do a U shaped kitchen, where you would sit, like on the end of this whole thing that's coming out, you just have the U coming out so that it was like sort of going out towards the refrigerator. And then you could sit on the side of the U and also sit on the end of the you go in towards the refrigerator, but just leave yourself, you know, 45 inches in front of the refrigerator at least. So that you can sit on the end, open the refrigerator door and everything else. And ideally 48 inches would be perfect, but 45 from the front of the refrigerator is doable. And that's a five, that's five more inches than the best case scenario that you're gonna get with an island. And then the only the other alternative that you have would be to get your refrigerator off of this wall. So if you've got data out of the back of your island, you could maybe, you know, you have a bunch of choices of how you want to do this, I think that the easiest way to do this might be to have a look looking at it to either see so from looking head on at it to maybe even close in your breakfast room wall a little bit so that you can get your refrigerator on the end. You know maybe where the glass door wall cabinets or something like those the wall in a little bit. And then once the refrigerator is off of that wall, you could then have like 12 inch deep pantry cabinets on that wall. And they're not going to be you know, they're they're gonna give you a whole nother foot. So then you'll have 37.25 plus six, that's 43 that's suddenly just the minimum size that we really think works. I mean, it's actually not the size that we're we're taught as kitchen designers that we're supposed to be leaving 48 inches, the distance that we're supposed to be, but it's only five inches less than that. So then it's doable to people. One person could be at the island and a person could stand and back to them at the sink and they wouldn't be totally bumping into each other. You know if you have less than the 42 or 43 inches then they can't even stand that every time you your butt your butt cheek, the butt cheek. If you have each part. Yeah. So yeah, so that's one of those two choices is sort of the layout that sort of works for your kitchen, is get rid of the refrigerator on the back wall, switch to 12 inch deep pantry cabinets and or no cabinets or whatever, however you want to wrestle with that solution. You do have the wall that bump out bumps out there with the doorway. Yeah. In the picture, like what's through there? Is that just the hallway or what's there? Loretta 15:34 It's that goes there. That's the my room, the laundry machines, and the entrance from the garage is right there. Paul McAlary 15:40 You could probably make that move that wall in a little bit, right? Loretta 15:45 Yes, that will that we could even do away with that closet altogether and bring the kitchen all the way. Yeah, Paul McAlary 15:51 even make it if you're just gonna, if you were just gonna make it 12 inch deep cabinets on that wall like pantry cabinets, you could just bump that wall in 12 inches too. And then yeah, it wouldn't be sticking out. And then your island the way it's designed so beautifully here, but just 12 inches too long will work. And then this whole design, which is very attractive, and I think is nice. There's some other issues we'll go over, but works well. But that's the only way to get this design to work, in my opinion, is the refrigerators got to come across the room, onto the sink side. Okay, and you keep it the way it is and do a U shaped kitchen, sitting at the back of the peninsula, which I really liked a lot. And a lot of kitchen designers like a lot, but our customers don't. So our customers are Loretta 16:40 your customers. Why do we always want islands, Paul McAlary 16:45 everybody wants to end the funniest thing from my life is I can't tell you how many times this happens. But always everybody wants an island that doesn't fit. And there'll be a time off on a Saturday, when there'll be four designers working before COVID with their customers. And at one point, I'll just be listening to the other designers. And we're waiting with our customers trying to make their islands smaller, so that we actually something happens. So we're all trying to sell them less cabinets, so that we can make the kitchen functional. But they just want the island bigger and bigger. Because until it's a reality, nobody's really accepting it. You know, everybody, everybody wants an island. And then once in a blue moon, we get some customer that has such a big kitchen, they could actually have two islands to Island, Loretta 17:32 I guess think about that? Well, yeah, your Paul McAlary 17:35 kitchen, your kitchen could have two islands too. And if you did a version with two islands, well, I hadn't even thought about that. But if you did a version with two islands, you could sort of have, you could sort of move your refrigerator and get it right into the middle of the two islands to sort of make it so you could step back from the refrigerator. That's a third way to do it. You split these islands up and you bring it sort of down. And then you have the refrigerator just ended up in the middle of the islands. And then oh, in between the two islands, and then you maybe make your islands 30 inches deep to besides 36. So that you're sort of compromise this three compromises you're making you get a double Island, center, the refrigerator in the middle, so people can go to the refrigerator, open the doors, and step back into the space between the two islands. So the following. So that's a third way to do you got really three versions that work. This one is very attractive, but does not. So Loretta 18:48 it is beautiful. But I hear you. That's why I was thinking that I kept telling the kitchen designer like I don't think there's enough room there. Oh, don't worry about it. She keeps saying I keep bringing it up. And I kind of think because I read, you know, and I can see that you're what you're supposed to have. And I know I don't have that. And she's like, Oh, don't worry about it. It'll be fine. Yeah, anyway, Paul McAlary 19:07 that's perturbing to me. Because that means that she's very dangerous. What other things is she not thinking about? Well, I'll tell you one of the things she's not thinking about. Why don't you have a hood over your stove? Loretta 19:23 I don't know. I don't know. You have to have to be up in those cabinets. Paul McAlary 19:28 Yeah, you have to have some kind of food over your stove. And she's got a 36 inch foot or a 36 inch range underneath the stove. So it's a very powerful range. You have to have something to protect the cabinets underneath. And you have to in you shouldn't really have your your powerful range like that should be vented outside doesn't have to be vented with a professional ventilation system. But it could be just a 400 cfm oId but it still should be vented outside and you don't want to spend In a fortune on a kitchen, and then all the smoke and grease and your whole kitchen is just coding your cabinets, your countertop, my gosh, because there's no way to get it. You want to get all that stuff out of your house when you're cooking, especially with white cabinets and white countertops. And you know, you got a white on white kitchen, probably gonna have a white backsplash. So Loretta 20:20 no, I'm not I kept telling Are you pumping, she keeps putting that marble in them. I'm just getting a black honed granite countertop. Very classic black and white. Paul McAlary 20:30 Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think that those of your design choices, and you definitely want to get a hood. And then other than that, any critiques that I have, I mean, you really have to wrestle with which of these three functional design choices you want to make. And then have somebody I don't know, if I want it to be, I would want it to be her, the person that's encouraging me to do do something, I think is a terrible idea. Yeah. But whoever read does the kitchen, then maybe come back on another Friday, and we tweak their new design with after they they get it into a more functional place. Okay, Loretta 21:14 thank you. And so that was another question that I had was what I mean, I know I think that you had said in your blogging and posts about googling someone, and how do you find a good designer? Where you live and that they're not? I'm in Rhode Island. I know. I wish I were local. Paul McAlary 21:33 So now so if you went on to Alan, we have designers that we recommend on our website, Loretta 21:39 go to do you recommend it Kitchen and Bath gallery in Warwick actually. Okay. Is there someone there? I can ask for? Paul McAlary 21:46 Yeah, no. So I don't the way that we recommend people, is we don't know any of these people at all. So I'll just give you a real quick synopsis of how we recommend them, we just first look at their house profiles, on how's that. And we see the pictures of kitchens that they show. When we look at the pictures of kitchens, if we see mistakes in the pictures of their kitchens, then we know that you know first off, you should be posting the pictures of the kitchens you're proud of. And you don't know if you're showcasing mistakes, either you don't have anything better to showcase or you don't know any better. Or you're just an idiot, I don't know, by looking at people's kitchens and eliminating the companies that have mistakes that eliminates 80% of everybody, every kitchen company. So now we're only down to 20%. So then we take that 20% of the people, and then we then look on houses, it's very easy to get good reviews, because you're only asking customers that are happy, you're inviting them most of the time to review you. So it makes it very easy to have a house. So like on our company, we have a 5.0 rating on how is on Google, we only have 4.7. We have 4.7 on Google, not because our customers have rated us poorly. But because I answer our phones and I miss off the people that call us when I tell them things you don't want to hear that the people that aren't even our customers give us one star reviews. That's why we have seven groups on Google. So what we do next is after we find that people on How's that, that don't show mistakes and have nice kitchens, then we take that 20% that's left, make sure that they have good reviews on Google, and good reviews on Yelp, that any good reviews, maybe on Angie's List, if they're listed on Angie's List, places where you can get rack up bad reviews from people if you don't do a good job. And then if they then the last thing we do is we go on their website. And we make sure that they sell cabinets across the whole pricing spectrum so that they sell inexpensive cabinets that we think are well made up to expensive brands that are well made, just so that we know that not trying to pigeonhole all of their customers into custom cabinetry or something else. So all that being said, if you go on our website, and we recommended that place, now we know that there's somebody there that knows what they're doing. Your job is to find out who that person is. And then see the design. Loretta 24:34 Right. Well, I guess I can see who's yeah, sometimes on how you know who the designer is. They'll say, Paul McAlary 24:42 I'll tell you, you could just call up on the phone and just say hi, I was just wondering who the most experienced person is there is there are some that's maybe start with them or that's a good place to start or, or you look at their go to their house page and like you said, maybe they show a couple of beautiful kids tons and they mentioned who the designers name was, and you can start with that. But yeah, so that that would be a good place to start. Because we at least we know there's somebody there that's knowledgeable and that the company itself gets good reviews and that the company itself isn't going bankrupt or is we hope is solvent if all their customers are happy writing Yeah. Okay. Loretta 25:26 Okay and the last question I want to I would love I would love to ask you is so I studied and studied your cabinet ratings and what I would like to find and well sort of confirmed my thinking is that the cabinets are there's a lot of high end and there's a lot at the low end there's not many middle range of prices don't seem to be worth it or something. But what I'm looking for I think I don't I don't want anything fancy. Any special finishes. I think that with this design, I don't need I don't need custom cabinets. I think I can go stop cabinet. But I would like a super high quality stock cabinet. And Paul McAlary 26:11 best, the best the brand we think is fab you within that category. They're not immune to have a supply chain issues. They have a couple of colors right now like but you're getting white white white shaker cabinets than they are not out of stock with any of those, any of that. And they're right shaker tablets are as nice as the most expensive cabinets that we sell. When you look at them. They're finishes are that nice. So I was if you go to our website, for example, and you go to the gallery page on our website, there's a kitchen that we describe as Villanova renovated barn. Loretta 26:55 Yes, yes, the barn one. Paul McAlary 26:57 Right. That's all fabulous. So that that's that's an only because the customer was getting shaker white cabinets. And that kitchen was supposed to be on the Philadelphia Orchestra is kitchen of distinction for before COVID hit. And that tour was $200 a ticket to go to rich people's house. And see they have some kind of word d'oeuvres by famous chefs in the kitchens. And it's fabulous. That kitchen. Wow. So it's not like an that customer. There was just no reason for her. She wanted standard oval overlay cabinets in a standard shaker doorstop in heights that weren't because the ceiling is lofted to heights that won't even go into the ceiling. There was just no reason to be in anything other than that. Loretta 27:48 Wow. I'm looking at the picture right now. The one that's on the cabinet ratings page. Paul McAlary 27:55 We show it the island kitchen. Yes. Loretta 27:58 Yeah, yeah. barn wood on the side that must have been custom. This is phenomenal. Paul McAlary 28:03 Because that's just it was actually I lied, it's really wasn't a barn. What it was was a stable. So it was gigantic, or a mansion. And then the this house is the name of the house, they have a loft with the master bedroom suite that's opened with with the whole rest of a second floor underneath it. And the kitchen is on like the loft is on the third floor. And it has, you know, incredibly high beam ceilings. It's incredibly beautiful. But but this was a stable, and the wood that's on the side. If you if you go to our website and you look at it, that's not cabinetry. That's the planks from the stables that they just named often urethane. And they wrap the fabric wood cabinets in, because if you go to the front of the island, you'll see it's all white cabinets again, it's only the back sides of the island that were wrapped in the stable flanks. Wow. Loretta 29:04 Oh, here it is. It's scrolling through. It's so beautiful. Paul McAlary 29:10 There's a lot of other ones in there too, that are crappy. So I would just say that that's fab you what is the best of these inexpensive brands? And maybe, I don't know, I understand that wolf is having some supply chain problems now. But wolf used to be the second best of these brands, j and k may be third. But there's a lot of these inexpensive brands. But I don't think there's any question that fabuleux sort of leads the pack on the less expensive brands that are well made and in the finishes and everything look like they're the expensive brands. Loretta 29:47 Wow. And so the other I wrote down ones that sort of look like they fit my criteria and CNC is not as nice as fabulous. But Paul McAlary 29:56 yeah, we carry CNC. We're actually going to be taking that on their doors right now, and taking them out of offices only because they have such bad supply chain problems right now, that daughter, a whole kitchen, a third of the cabinets won't be available. So that's one of their problems. And they're really good for rental properties. Because the finishes are definitely not as nice as fabulous. What I tell customers, if they're getting CNC is like if you're flipping a house, or if it's a rental property, nobody's going to be that picky and no one's taken a microscope when they walk through a kitchen, and looking at the paint up close. But we know when we sell a whole pitch into a customer, they're anal, and they go over the whole kitchen. And if DNC I don't want to come to your house, after you cabinets get delivered and find a whole, you know, 20 pieces of blue tape on all of these cabinets, because here's a drip here, here's a little bit of a spot that The finish looks rough, I can see the joy on this cabinet. It's like you're not getting see and yet CNC is 20% less than fab you would generally and the 20%. It's still a well constructed cabinet. But the 20% is all looks. And so I would say if it's your own house, you don't want to see and see, because you want the better looking cap, and it's worth the 20% to pay for it. Okay, Loretta 31:19 I'm also thinking about and the gap, the kitchen plates that is on your website that's local for me. So birch, I pronounced that CRTC. And that's more pricey. That's a worthwhile step up for me, I don't mind. I don't mind paying for quality, but I don't want to pay more and not getting anything more. Paul McAlary 31:41 Well, you're not gonna be getting much more birches a much nicer, more expensive cabinet brand. But the question is, if you're getting white shake, or full overlay doors, you're paying a bunch of more money for not for nothing, really. So that would be if you could find somebody that sold fab, you order Wolf, or maybe J and K, those will be the three top leaders in this these kinds of finishes. You know, the finishes are as nice as the finishes from like you were right, when you said the middle price lines, you're taking a step down in quality. And the reason you're taking a step down in quality is now the doors are painted and finished in the United States. And labor is much more expensive. And they can't stand the doors smooth and do all the the labor intensive work to get these cabinets finished, so that they really look like the expensive brands. So you'll get the middle price. You'll get colors that you couldn't get in the less expensive brands. They'll have wood species like cherry and maple, and hickory and birch and all these different vert, these different cabinet woods that you can get. Don't be expecting. There's no question we have two samples out right on our desk today, just to make sure our customer understands that they're getting Timberlake from us. And they're getting colors that are the same as fab you would. So they're spending 25% more to get Timberlake, but the door style and finish that they're picking those almost fabulous. So I want them to understand before they buy this, that they're paying 25% and the quality will be less. So because they're made in the United States, if they were picking timber Lake and they were getting cherry cabinets, or they were getting maple cabinets, or they were getting a green cabinet color, or things that they just can't get in fabric wood or any of the inexpensive brands, then the decisions would have made sense to me. But they don't make so much sense when they're picking the same thing fabulous sells. And they're paying 25% More for a tiny, tiny, tiny little adjustment in the color of the blue that they're picking. And oh my goodness, but they're you know, you look at the finish. I can see the grain coming through on the timber Lake door. I can see cracks on the top of the door and the bottom of the door where the seams are all the things that I couldn't see in the fabric. Loretta 34:11 Wow. Incredible. Paul McAlary 34:14 You know, we sell a lot of all of these different brands but there's a niche and there's a reason to sell them. But if you're getting white shaker you're not really taking advantage of most of this stuff. Loretta 34:25 Okay, that was my feeling too. I'm not that I don't want I don't need a statement Kitchen I want something. I want a gathering place for all the people I love to be Paul McAlary 34:36 if you can, you will be able to tell the difference between between the fab you would know the people that got the bought renovated barn kitchen. You know as you go through our website you can see their butler's pantry is beautiful too. Nobody that walks through their house understands that their cabinetry is less expensive. They don't couldn't tell the difference at all. Because the finish quality is very good. But it's still a painted tablet. So the one thing you have to always be aware of Is that painted cabinetry is more easily damaged. So you have to be more careful with blue scratches. It doesn't matter if it's an expensive brand or an inexpensive brand. They all the painted cabinets scratch Nick easily and are damaged by water. But the good news is because they do get them in so easily. A whole industry has sprouted up to take care of and touch up and fix all these white cabinets that everybody's been buying 10 years. Loretta 35:28 And do you think this is a style question? Hearing, I want to do the kitchen and forget it. I don't want high maintenance. Things. Generally speaking. I want something timeless. I don't want something that's going to look dated. So I feel like the white cabinets with a black countertop is the best shot I have it time of having a timeless kitchen. Would you agree or disagree with that? Paul McAlary 35:54 I think white shaker is such a generic thing, that it's always going to be popular and black countertops are fine. But really, you could get any color countertops, and it would be fine. If you got white on white on white like it is in the picture. Maybe that will be a little bit identified with this period that we're in right now. More identifiable, but people have always been monochromatic. So there will always be a time when you know white on white on white will always be popular only because there'll always be a niche of customers that are attracted to it. And the white and the black. That will always be also popular. It's something that waxes and wanes in popularity. But I liked the you know the contrast when there's contrast between the countertop and the cabinets, it makes the whole thing more interesting to look at, I think. So. I like to contrast but it doesn't have to be black. It could be black to center. I mean, if you did Gray, that would be fine. If you did navy blue, if you did whatever the thing is that you choose, it will be as long as everything is color coordinated, it will still be timeless. As long as the color choices that you pick are good. I mean, if you pick a color that's, you know, Pinky, or you know, some other kind of color that nobody would like, then you're in trouble. But barring that anything tasteful. I think you're fine with a very simple Shaker Door white. Loretta 37:23 Okay, excellent. Oh, my gosh, this has been so helpful. Can I ask you one more one final question. Here. You say Hang on. One more. Okay. Okay. I almost want to so if I want to go with sab, you would, but I don't like any of the shops, the designers at the shops that sell them. Can I dis decouple the design with the purchase of the cabinets. It's not the way that things are done? Paul McAlary 37:54 No, you have to really have to buy the cabinets of the people that are Loretta 37:58 owning the design that are doing Paul McAlary 38:00 the design. But I wouldn't think that finding a fab dealer would be that hard. And what's the brand that the companies that we recommended carries I'll bet Yes, Wolf, if it's not fat, what Loretta 38:12 I'm looking at my list. Birch, Paul McAlary 38:15 they have to sell something less expensive than birch. Yeah. We wouldn't have recommended them otherwise. Waltz J and K, something like that. Maybe. What's the name of the Loretta 38:29 operands? Here is fieldstone Moser Sentra KraftMaid birch Fairmont, Paul McAlary 38:37 Fairmont, remember, we might have made it. But we might have made an exception to them. But we also might not, they might not. So you can call them up. They might not be advertising. Like on our website. Sometimes we don't advertise some of the lines we carry. So they might be carrying Wolf, but not telling you or something like that. Loretta 38:59 Okay. Paul McAlary 39:02 But really, if you're out, you can get somebody to get the design close to the one that you want or direct them. If the place gets a good gets good reviews, and they sell fab you would you can vet the design with us and we can help you make it make it right. And then you can order from them. If that's the case. Oh, Paul, this Loretta 39:22 is thank you so much. Oh my goodness, I wish I could buy from you just would make the whole thing. I can't sell right because you're Paul McAlary 39:33 too far away. And that's the thing people have to remember too. Is that really what our job is, is we don't make the cabinets we don't sell the I mean we don't make the cabinets. We don't ship the cabinets. We don't bring the cabinets inside the house. We don't store the cabinets in the warehouse. All those things are being done by third parties that we're hiring to do. I mean we're hiring the capital where you're you're buying cabinets from us, and we're picking the the company that you're You're you're picking the company that you're buying from us, but we're the dealer for that company. So our job is really to expedite you getting a good kitchen. And it's a very complicated project. And so there's always stuff goes wrong. And always things people need our help. And that's especially in the middle of of supply chain crisis. This damages this, the truck drivers that are driving the cabinet's around now, are less experienced because the profession pays less money. So they're not securing the cabinet's when they're driving around. We had one of our customers got a fabulous kitchen delivered, it was a driver that was brand new, he drove through three states with the cabinets bouncing around the back of his truck, and oh my gosh, no more damage when they came off the truck. So then that the rep and us we all had an expedite getting everything replaced. And we got it done in like eight days, so that the customer wasn't that inconvenienced. But you can't ever go through this process without bad stuff happening. Or something happening, that you need our help, and that you don't want to be bordering from somebody that's impossible to drive over, and, and help you personally, or even have people in the area that they know that can facilitate the things that you might need. Loretta 41:18 Right. Okay. Thank you so, so much. Paul McAlary 41:23 Okay. All right. Good talking to you, Loretta and, you know, maybe we have got another Friday. Okay, cool. Thank Loretta 41:28 you so much. Paul McAlary 41:31 All right. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Mark Mitten 41:34 Thank you for listening to the mainline kitchen design podcast with nationally acclaimed Kitchen Designer Paul maxillary. This podcast is brought to you by Brighton cabinetry, high quality, custom cabinetry at competitive prices. For more on kitchen cabinets and kitchen design, go to www dot mainlined kitchen design.com Transcribed by https://otter.ai