Mark Mitten 0:06 You have a dark corner of your kitchen, for which neither light nor hope can escape. You'd better call Paul. Unknown Speaker 0:15 Hi, Wendy, can you hear me? Unknown Speaker 0:18 Yes, I can. Paul. Thank you. Speaker 2 0:20 Hey, welcome to better call Paul knew. So. So yes, I'm looking at your design. Have we? Have we talked before? We've talked before, haven't we? Speaker 3 0:35 We did, you would give me a suggestion. I had a wall oven next to the stove immediately next to the stove. And you said no, no to that. And then you suggested that I moved the window, which was off center to the left bias to the left, and you're putting Speaker 2 0:52 this is you've embraced all those things that I guess, right? Speaker 3 0:57 Good. My concern is on the right hand side. I have. It looks like it's gonna be a very dark little corner with a string of floor to ceiling cabinets. I'm just concerned to how that aesthetically gonna appeal. Speaker 2 1:13 So I guess that's true. But one way to make that a little bit better, would be like, in your picture. You've got cabinets going on the end of the refrigerator. On the other in one part of the picture. You have cabinets going on the end of the refrigerator, I guess facing out? Speaker 3 1:36 Yeah, yeah, the little room that I was using doesn't let me turn it so it's facing out. Speaker 2 1:42 So that's why so yeah, so one way to to change that would be to if you didn't like that little corner. I mean, there's that you're right. That little corner is a dark, funny little corner. There's there's some that there's some things that aren't so big. Oh, you got a 33 inch corner in there, huh? Speaker 3 2:07 Yeah, yep. Oh, it's Unknown Speaker 2:12 a nine inch cabinet after it. Speaker 3 2:16 So I have two designs, one of the 33 inch corner and one that has a 36 inch corner. And what I'm sacrificing is I've bumped out the hole, the total length, the one with the utility cabinet, the end of the refrigerator, to the right, essentially, that wall is 108 inches. And the second design that starts with gifts on page six, something like that. I I am a designer 105 inches, and I have a 33 inch corner plus a nine inch cabinet. I lose all that pantry space. But it does encroach. I'm trying to balance the need for space and encroachment and, and visual appeal. Speaker 2 2:57 Yeah, I mean, the one thing about a 33 inch corner, you have another you have a 33 inch corner on the other side too, right. So yeah, Speaker 3 3:06 I don't know how to do that. Unless I'm reducing the space, I think to still Speaker 2 3:13 be Have you picked out a sink yet. No. So let's say you wanted to just get a standard synth, a standard single bolt sic all of your problems are going to be or many of your problems will be solved. Because the standard single bowl sink with the antique like a D shaped sink is a common standard single bowl sink. But they're all between one they'll all be 21 and a half inches wide across. And they only require even though kitchen designers and other people are going to tell you otherwise. You know, experienced kitchen designers know that those standards and goals since only require a 24 inch cabinet. So okay, there's actually some advantages is that if you're getting an undermount sink and you're putting this sink in a 24 inch cabinet, the lip of the sink is actually going to sit on top of the sides of the cabinet. So sometimes people have problems over time in that their their sinks drop and you know separate from the countertop and they start getting you know grunge and crap and all kinds of stuff in that gap. Well your sink can't drop. If the top of the if the top of the flange on the sink is actually sitting on top of the countertop. It's going to have granite or quartz or whatever countertop pressed right up against it and it will never separate. So if you did that gets your 36 inches on the left. It gets you another three inches on the right. And then you can change the cabinet to the right of your stove. From a 12 into a nine, now that corners a 36 inch corner 36 by 36, you have a nine inch cabinet there, which is much more useful in some respects, a 12 inch cabinet that's drawers isn't really useful at all. Because if you're getting free cabinetry, the inside of the drawers are only going to be five inches less than the width of the cabinet. So that's seven inches. So that's very narrow drawers. So I think better for that space to just be for cookie sheets and trays, and then make it a nine. And then you got your 36 and then the left side is solved. And then on your right side, everything can stay the same. And you can use the 36 inch honor. And then we just have to make your pantry cabinet that's to the left of your refrigerator, three inches smaller, or three inches narrower. But that's even not a bad thing. Because right now it's 24. Right? Speaker 3 6:07 It is but that's going to house hopefully a steam oven which is 24 inches Neela steam love it. But the poor stupid program that I was using, doesn't it only it forces you to use a 30 inch cabinet to show an oven in there. That's why I had to go to the cabinet. Speaker 2 6:25 Yeah, so I think if it's me I go. The one thing is, is I always try to I try to never depends on the cabinet brand that you're in, you could do what's called an asymmetrical easy reach, or an asymmetrical Lazy Susan cabinet where it's 33 on one leg, and 36 on the other. And then the only problem is if you have a lazy susan on the inside the Lazy Susan will be the smaller size. Because it's you know, it can't, it can't be the Lazy Susan can't be asymmetrical. But if you didn't even put a lazy Susan and you just made it an open cabinet. That three inch difference is gigantic as far as how easy it is to get into that cabinet. So okay, so Speaker 3 7:12 on the stove side, I do an asymmetrical and take you know on the Speaker 2 7:17 stone side of this switch to the the view switch to the the 24 inch sink base on the stove side, you just got to get a regular one. And then switch to a nine inch cabinet on the other side, get rid of that 12 base because 12 inch drawer bases make no sense. And then maybe on your other side, you think about doing it so that you can do an asymmetrical one. They're 36 on the sink side and nine on the other side. So that you can get the 33 leg and the nine inch to give you what you want it. Okay. Paul McAlary 8:01 Also I don't see Psalm 36. So 33 plus nine equals 33 plus nine equals 42 minus 24 equals so that you also have a cabinet in the right hand corner that says 16 inches. A wall cabinet next to the pantry. That's really it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's, you know, if you add it up 33 and nine, when your corner cabinets 24 leisure with 18. So that cabinet won't be 60 will be 80. All right. Speaker 2 8:42 And then you can fit your 24 inch thing. And then that will leave you that little dark corner that you're worried about. But at least that little dark corner will be nine plus nine is 18 inches wide. And the good news is you're gonna still have some place for a toaster oven that's gonna have to go right and maybe countertop junk. And that stuff will when you put it towards the back, it will be hidden by your pantry cabinet. And you won't have to reach so far back to get at it because it's up against the wall there. So we'll just hide a bunch of stuff that you don't want want to see anyway. Speaker 3 9:24 It's a good point. Yeah. It's a good point. So that's very helpful. Now what do you think about the cabinets close to the windows there? Did the big window, the 218 inch? I like to think I should you okay, do not too close to the edge of the window there. I don't Paul McAlary 9:49 know. I mean, as long as the shorter the window you should be fine. Just make sure that when you're calculating the size of the window, that you're adding the trim To, you know, to the window, you don't want to get the window, put the trim in, then get to the cabinet part and find out that your cabinets are hitting the trip. So you got to get by a window that's the size, you know, that includes the, you know, the window size is essentially, normally, if you're getting normal size window trim, which is two and a half inches wide, it's really two and a quarter, but we say two and a half, then the window itself needs to be maybe six inches smaller than the you know, then then then the opening space. So then, you know, then the space that you're allotting at least. So in other words, in this space, I don't know if we have an elevation here, but I don't know how big your windows are. But just when you're figuring out to spacing. Well, we got what is it there, we got 12 feet across the back is what you're saying you have, you have 144 inches, and we minus 24 minus 24 minus the team minus B team minus, so you've got 60 inches left for Windows trim and everything else. So if that was the case, I might buy a window that was Speaker 2 11:23 I don't know 48 or 50 inches wide, and then you'd have trim around it. If you've got extra wide trim that was three and a half inches wide, you could elect to have extra wide trim, and it wouldn't be a problem. And then if you got like, say was a 50 inch wide window and the trim was three and a half inches wide, then that would be seven, and then you have the little jam that's around the inside of the window. So you would be ordering a window. That was like 50 inches or 50 inches wide for a 60 inch space. Speaker 3 12:02 Okay. Now, do you have an opinion about bringing the window all the way down to the countertop? Like a taller window? Speaker 2 12:13 Yeah, I mean, that's fine. The only thing you want to make sure is just that. You if you bring it all the way down, does that mean that you bring it all the way down so that the trim around the window hits the countertop? Or, you know, the countertop? Window? Speaker 3 12:33 I'm not really sure I just started looking at some some photos online and and I'm seeing folks that bring it all the way down the counter, I'd have to look more closely to see, Speaker 2 12:42 they just have to get toward the it's just a little bit harder to coordinate that. So whoever the contract, wherever the contractor that's doing that just has to be setting the window at the perfect time. Because and you have to figure out what kind of window you get. So what are you going to get double hung windows that go up and down? Are you going to get casement windows that have a little crank? The biggest mistake that happens is when the contract is now out the windows a little bit too low. And then the countertop ends up being a little bit too high. And then when you go to crank the window, your fingers are hitting the countertop. Unknown Speaker 13:22 Oh, yeah, I could see that. Yeah. Speaker 2 13:25 So can organizing it is just a little bit harder. Like a lot of times what people will do is do a safe thing, which is just have the window pretty close to the countertop, but leave the trim underneath the window to finish off the whole opening. And then maybe leave a little bit of tile underneath the trim just to connect the backsplash tile from each side of the window. So maybe that they're mounting the window height at something like 40 inches or something like that. So they make the rough opening 40 inches. And then when the trim goes around it if it's two and a half inch trim, and you have a window sill and everything that it ends up coming down to maybe an inch and a half from the countertop. And then the tile just connects the two areas, or 41 inches, have the rough opening 41 inches off of the floor. And then your your windows low but not so low that the contractor has a harder time. Unknown Speaker 14:30 Right, right. Speaker 2 14:32 If you can, okay, it just means that everybody's got to be that much more sophisticated and organized. Speaker 3 14:38 Right, right. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate your time and I think this is a big improvement took a little convincing of the Hubin to allow me to move the window on the tank. Unknown Speaker 14:52 Did you get pricing yet for like doing it both? Unknown Speaker 14:56 Not yet. Not yet. Speaker 2 14:57 So yeah, when you get the pricing but a lot of times, you know, it's certainly if you're saving money on something else, so you just compromise on something else, it won't really end up costing you that much. So save money on countertops, save money on cabinets, maybe get a little bit less expensive appliances. But if it makes it a really a better design, it's sort of, you know, it just looks all better. And it's sort of worth it. I guess the other thing, I'm looking at your design too. And I forgotten how higher your ceilings again, Speaker 3 15:33 it's an eight foot ceiling. No, I didn't put any trim on the on the wall cabinets, they're the ones that you see a 39 inches was, I think a three inch Paul McAlary 15:43 thing you want is you want everything to be third, ideally, you want everything to be 36 inch cabinetry. 46, okay, so there'll be less and then you'll have moldings that will go this last six inches up to the ceiling. And that will be due to things is that wall that the stove on an exterior wall? Unknown Speaker 16:06 No, it backs up to our bathroom. Paul McAlary 16:09 So then that will allow you a space you can have the area over the cabinetry to be put crown to piece crown molding. On top of that, in fact, I'll just do something while I'm thinking about this evening email you back how to do a two piece crown molding, but that will allow you to up to so that your cabinetry can be leveled. And it won't make your ceiling look at a level. And then also 36 inch wall cabinets or the standard wall heights. So you'll save money on cabinetry, usually 36 instead of 39. Speaker 2 16:57 And then, if you want to vent your foot outside, you can just run a block of wood the same color as your cabinets across the bottom, the hood will go up and hit that piece of wood. And then it will get into the cavity that six inches high now between the cabinets and the ceiling. And it can run along the tops of the cabinets the ductwork to get out the back of the house. So you're hooked. Speaker 3 17:27 I'm lucky that this is only a one floor place. So I can vent that right up through my attic and outside. Speaker 2 17:35 Sometimes that's harder to do because you have to mess with your roof or get into your gifts. But but if you're if you're if the contractor is comfortable doing that, you could do that. Yeah. But Speaker 3 17:55 in terms of lighting, I you know, I guess the the concern is making sure that you don't shadow yourself while you're working right. So it's got to be how far off the wall do you recommend the lighting, Speaker 2 18:08 I mean, the lighting people worry about the shadowing a lot. I worry less about shadowing. First off, you should have undercabinet lighting or if you can afford it at least that's really good because that lights up the bottom and lights up your countertops, which is very helpful. And then the problem with the shadowing is that if you get these lights very close to the moldings, so that you don't have any shadows when you're working, it doesn't look too good. So the lighting, the lighting looks a lot better if it's several inches away. So what I would do is just put more lights, you know, I usually have the lights sort of centered over the edge of the countertop, so they're not so close, they're not so far forward that they're that close to the moldings. They're a few inches away from the moldings, they might be creating shadows, but if we have more if we have three lights, three lights or if you have more lights than you think you need, so let me just see so 123456 Maybe if you have six lights, six recessed lights in your ceiling, then the light will be coming from so many different directions. Especially if you have under cabinet lighting that you will have a little bit of a shadow from the one light that might sometimes be over your head, but the other light will make up for it. And you won't have it won't look terrible. Having like the house having to trim it of the light, like a half inch or something or an inch. We're really too close to your moldings. Speaker 3 19:57 Okay, Okay, and as far as the countertop, given that my sink is right in the middle, would you recommend ensuring that the counter, folks put the seam right in the middle of the sink? Or would you have a shorter run on each side and have the two side pieces be the same? Speaker 2 20:18 No, you could, you could, it's a toss up, I think in your kitchen, if it was me. Paul McAlary 20:26 12 feet, I would put my seam not centered at the sink, but to the right in the, towards the corner. So Speaker 2 20:39 inch off of the corner. On the right hand side, that's sort of close to the, that's, you know, you can only go 10 feet in one direction, and you know, five feet in the other direction. So you can get that out of a slab, if the scene is there. And it's in the back of the refrigerator in the pantry a little bit. So it's a little bit less noticeable. You know, some people would put it centered on the sink, which is okay, too, because you're really only going to see the front scene. But it is such a high traffic high used area, that you can end up chipping it more likely when it's at the sink. Unknown Speaker 21:19 That's a good point. Paul McAlary 21:21 So I think I put it to the right. And then you still have one seam and it's a little bit more visible. But then. But the other good thing, too is, if you really did the the doing the version I said, where you're mounting this sink on top of the cabinet, then it certainly makes the seam the same as isn't going to be moving as much as it might have. If it was if you're mounting the sink separately and everything. No, it's the sink is going to be pressed up against it. So you can talk to the wherever you're buying the cabinets from or wherever you're buying the countertop from and see what they think, you know, it's sort of a toss up, but if it's me, I put it to the right. Unknown Speaker 22:12 Okay. Okay, sounds good. Speaker 2 22:16 There's not a right or wrong answer there. Some of it depends too on the pattern that you're getting. Speaker 3 22:26 Yeah. I haven't decided I figured I wanted to focus on the layout and get the layout right. And the materials I'll figure out what Speaker 2 22:37 but yeah, I have much less to complain about it because it's it's got my insolence. Speaker 3 22:47 I can't tell you how much I'm appreciative of your website, I follow your your comment blog, you know, where you rate the cabinets I've been read, I read that every couple of days and have you available for advice is just it's priceless. It really is. I appreciate your time. Speaker 2 23:06 No problem. So, alright, so feel free to call back another time. We're getting closer and closer to Matt, you know, of creating our podcasts page on our website, and then starting listing the catalog of our, our calls. And then also you know, having them listed on iTunes and stuff like that. So you can you'll be able to listen to yourself, if you Unknown Speaker 23:37 don't think I'll be here. But thanks. Speaker 2 23:41 Well, you know what? You're a good person, you're a good call, because you took some of our advice you made changes. You know, if you call back to people that actually are listening to the podcasts might be you know, might be, you know, more likely to take our advice if they hear people that are happy, happy. Take it. So, yeah, your calls are a good call for the podcast. So thank you for calling it Unknown Speaker 24:10 anytime. Thanks, Paul. Alright, Unknown Speaker 24:12 have a great day, wherever you could have a nice weekend. Unknown Speaker 24:15 You too. Bye. Bye. Mark Mitten 24:17 Thank you for listening to the mainline kitchen design podcast with nationally acclaimed Kitchen Designer Paul maxillary. This podcast is brought to you by Brighton cabinetry, high quality custom cabinetry at competitive prices. For more kitchen cabinets and kitchen design, go to www dot mainline kitchen design.com Transcribed by https://otter.ai