Mark Mitten 0:04 Are you trapped in Southern California with tons of interior designers, and no knowledgeable kitchen designers who understand construction and function? You better call Paul. Paul McAlary 0:32 Hi, Monica, can you hear me? Monica 0:33 Yes. Thank you so much. Paul McAlary 0:36 Oh, no problem. Welcome to a better call poll. I'm not sure if you can discern from the floor plan that I sent you where everything is necessarily. And there's some measurements that I'm not quite positive about, they're probably all very close to the actual measurements that you have in your kitchen. Okay, what the first thing I would say that what I changed from the design that you sent me is the first thing is just get rid of all the brick, and all that stuff that's outdated, was never a good idea. And I'm sure it's not structural or anything else. It's decorative. Was it in the house when you moved in? It was probably I wouldn't be surprised if the owner of the house originally was a Mason, or something like that. And so doing this brick thing was something he could do on his own. Okay. It's problematic for lots of reasons. The whole thing coming out, you know, restricts your countertop, your working countertop, right? So not only is it outdated, but it's eliminating valuable countertop space that you might want. And it frees up 16 inches of countertop space, just by the fact that these bricks are eight inches wide. And it makes the whole room seem much bigger. Instead of making this big, dark cubby where you're cooking at now, you'd be cooking at a big open area. Okay, Monica 2:04 yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with you the because with keeping it there, then we were had put together a floor plan where the refrigerator was on the left side closer to the sink. And then it created right, the workflow problems. Paul McAlary 2:26 Oh, yeah, your refrigerator, I've got it designed so that it's as open as it can be, you could certainly center your stove. In my design, I've got a pantry all the way in the top right hand corner, right then the refrigerator with a cabinet coming all the way out than a panel on the side of the refrigerator. So I'm closing in the corner of the room in the top right hand corner, right with all the tall deep things, and then I'm leaving you 33 inches of space for countertop on the right hand side of your stove. And then you have many feet, you have 10 feet of countertop before you get to your stove, on the left side of your stove. And you know, that leaves your stove essentially centered in front of your island. If you want to just so centered in front of all the cabinets, you could rearrange the cabinet so it was more centered on the wall. But this way, it's sort of centered on the island that I have. And actually your refrigerator then falls directly in the gap between the island and like a bar area that I put to the right hand side. And then to the right hand side where your refrigerator is. Now I just have base cabinets that are 18 inches deep and wall cabinets, just to give you like a serving area. And it could be like a little bit of a bar area. The cabinets aren't deep enough to put your wine refrigerator there. But it doesn't jut out into the room. So it makes the whole thing seem a little bit more open. And it centered your refrigerator right in the gap between the two countertops. Oh, Speaker 1 4:02 okay. So a neighbor of ours has this floor plan and they had removed the refrigerator entirely on that right side and just basically lined it up in the back. But where did it where the oven is? Paul McAlary 4:21 Yeah, that's where I have it. I have it to the right of your stove. All the way in the Monica 4:26 Oh, okay. Right. Okay. So Paul McAlary 4:28 what I'm gonna do is after we finished this phone call, is I'll finish this off, and I'll send you 3d views of it. So you can actually see it in 3d. I don't have mold on the cabinets or anything else. And I just sent you the floor plan. But you look at the floor plan I sent you if your make your table, the bottom of your table that's in the middle of the bay window, the bottom of the floor plan, then your refrigerators in the top right hand corner. And that's really one of the first things we try to do is we try to put All the deep toll things in a corner so that they're not making them seem smaller. And then you know, I've got a pantry to the right of the refrigerator so that when you open the refrigerator doors, the refrigerator doors open across the pantry, they don't hit the doorway or anything else. And then if you're in front of the refrigerator, you're right and back to the gap between the island and the countertop that's to the right on the wall where the refrigerator used to be. And then you know, that way you can someone go into the refrigerator, walk straight through an open path right to the refrigerator with nothing in back of them. And if you're opening the doors to the refrigerator, you can step back as far as you want. And then you know, I'm leaving you an appropriate amount of space on all four sides, you could take this island and move it back towards the table, if you wanted to, to give you a little bit more space between the island and the stove. But 45 inches isn't a bad distance between those two things. It gives you a bunch of space between the table and the aisle. Speaker 1 6:07 Okay, so I can figure out the measurements that you have for our islands. Subtracting the other sides Paul McAlary 6:15 to the countertop on your island is the red line that's around the cabinets there. The cabinetry in your island is like a little bit more than six feet, six feet one and a half inches, and then we overhang 12 inches on one side and you know an inch and a half on the other. So you have your island is a grand total of a little bit more than seven feet long. And it's about 39 inches deep. So it will comfortably sit three. And then I had a clip two corners of the island, you don't have to clip both corners, you could only clip the lower corner. But I clipped the lower corner to give you enough room to have a pathway into the sink. And then what I didn't do is what you have now, which is a lot of people's inclination when they're not kitchen designers is they want to put cabinets everywhere, everywhere there's a wall surface, they have to have cabinets. So turning the corner with your sink. So your dishwasher right now is sort of opening down in the wrong direction to you almost right when you're at your sink. So I have your dishwasher to the left of your sink. And then another drawer base cabinet that you could have knives and forks and spoons and stuff like that. And on the left, I didn't bother turning the corner with the cabinetry. Oh, Monica 7:33 I see. So that's open. So Paul McAlary 7:35 that's all open on that side. And you know what, you didn't really lose very much cabinetry doing that and it made working at the countertop much better. Because it's all a straight run. You know, when you're on your left hand side of your countertop, you have four feet of countertop on your left. And if you you know, you have to decide where you're going to put things. Some people might put their coffeemaker over there, you might put your toaster oven over there. Or, you know, if you had your dish rack or whatever that you were doing there, you'd still have enough room to the left of it. And then you wouldn't have dishwasher doors and other things opening into you. It just makes the thing more spacious. And you have a lot of cabinets it's a big kitchen. You have a big pantry cat walk in pantry area to right. Speaker 1 8:22 Yes, yep. It's underneath our stairs so it fits perfectly. Yeah, we have added so we we did a remodel. So we added six, six foot lengths to our kitchen. It didn't used to be quite as Paul McAlary 8:35 I figured that I saw that beam in the picture. Yeah, that's everything out. Yeah. So that's great. So I mean, it's a really, really big kitchen. Now, I don't know that you need anything more than I've gotten it and you know you're paying for cabinets and everything. So this gives you plenty of cabinets. I mean, if they had criticisms of this design, did you want to have double ovens and a cooktop Were you okay with just a freestanding range. Speaker 1 9:00 I was going to do the 48 inch Wolf range, so that's perfect. Paul McAlary 9:04 So if you're doing the 48 inch Wolf range, I can make that a 48 inch Wolf range when I send it to you. And then we'll try to center that range a little bit more on the island and some other stuff. And then we'll make the hood a 48 inch hood. Yeah. So then that gets you to ovens and a cooktop so that's all good and a 48 inch wood and then you have one pantry cabinet to the right of the refrigerator. I think that's plenty of space when you have underneath the stairs that other area and then just keep the countertop that you have to the right of your island. I mean if you wanted to make the island bigger, you couldn't get rid of all those cabinets over there. But I think it might be sort of nice to have that maybe be some glass cabinets on top maybe and you know wine glasses or something over there and you can't get a wine refrigerator over there but your wine refrigerator that you had you could put in the island and then you take something out of the refrigerator, and you'd walk over to that little bar area, open the wine bottle there. And then you know, pour yourself a glass and we'll get a glass out of the top glass cabinets, the glass cabinets will be facing towards the table, which will be sort of nice and sort of lit up. So you get a countertop over there that you could use for whatever it could be a quality bar could be a wine bar. Speaker 1 10:23 Okay, and that's where you said it's 18 inches deep. Paul McAlary 10:26 I only made them 18 inches deep, because if I make them 24, then the good thing is, is then you could put the wine refrigerator there, if it was 24 inches deep. But the problem with that is going to be that now it's going to make the island smaller. And I don't know that you want to make the island much smaller than I've got it. Speaker 1 10:46 Yes, I agree. Okay. Oh, wonderful. Thank you. Paul McAlary 10:51 How about the stairs, it goes underneath the stairs, which direction do the stairs go like when you open the door to that pantry area, what's to the left going up towards the other doorway there. Speaker 1 11:04 So it's basically a rectangular inside. Paul McAlary 11:10 And the stairs go down when you open that pantry door on the stairs coming down over your head and going towards the other doorway. So that doorway that's up by where I now put the refrigerator and the other pantry in the corner is that like your basement door or something or your door to them? No, Speaker 1 11:30 that's our dining room. That's your dining room. The door Paul McAlary 11:33 that is the pantry that you said is under the stairs when you open that door. If you were to stick your head into the pantry and look towards the top of my screen to the left, essentially, after you open that door, what's to the left there, Speaker 1 11:48 we have open shelving on both sides. So Paul McAlary 11:53 the reason I'm asking that is, if you really wanted to get fancy, what you could do is you could put your wine refrigerator through the wall there, right, Monica 12:08 so I see what you're saying so that Paul McAlary 12:11 when you open the pantry door, it will be blocked out a little bit depending on how far back up you could get. But I don't know how far you could get the refrigerator. But ideally, you want to move the refrigerator as far back away from the doorway as you could and the wall was probably five inches thick. I've got the cabinet's 18, the back of the refrigerator is only going to jump out at most two and a half inches into that cavity and back of the doorway there. Right? It wouldn't ruin your pantry space by that much. You have to figure out, you know, the refrigerator is going to be 34 inches high. How far can you go before you get to a height of 34 inches? Speaker 1 12:53 Okay. Yeah, you're right. Because on the other side right now, it's it's the foyer, you know that it's kind of the hallway going into the kitchen area. And right now, you know, on that side of the foyer in the foyer area, we are in the hallway, we just have, you know, a dresser in that book. But you're right, you could open it up, Paul McAlary 13:16 that would be a better wine area. If you opened up the wall and had the refrigerator get tucked into the wall there, then that would be a better wine area right that you now have the refrigerator and all the cabinetry would only look 18 inches deep to the naked eye because it's going through the wall. And then you're have that countertop and everything else and now you have your island has more cabinets in it and it doesn't have a wine refrigerator in it that really doesn't belong in it. Speaker 1 13:45 Interesting. Okay. Wow. That's incredible. Paul McAlary 13:49 So I'll send you that too. It won't take me I've got this most of the way done really, it only took me a half an hour, I'll finish it up and then send it to you, you know after we get off the phone, but so you can get a better idea of what everything would look like. And Monica 14:02 then present you so much. Paul McAlary 14:04 Oh, no problem. I mean, there's lots of stuff that you can do too is I also just kept it open on either side of the window. You know you have 28 inches or 27 inches on each side of the window. I guess what I could do is I could put an angled corner cabinet in the corner if you wanted on the top by the window and put a straight cabinet that's 27 inches wide on the other side of the window if you wanted I just kept it really open because you had so much cabinetry that I didn't know that you needed it and then it wouldn't be symmetrical on either side of the window. You know that's something you could certainly do if you wanted to. If you really wanted more cabinets I'll put an angle cabinet in the clear wall corner of the over the top of the Lazy Susan in the top left hand corner and then put up just another wall cabinet in your picture. You have a straight cabinet on one side and you have an easy reach cabinet A folding door cabinet in the corner. That's another way to do it that you can do it to either one of those, either the way you had it originally with the folding door cabinet in the corner and the straight cabinet on the other side, that's one way or the angle cabinet in the corner and then the straight cabinet in the other corner. That's another way or no cabinets on either side of the window and the cabinets just coming straight down, which will be very open, you'll have a little bit less storage space, but you do have a lot of storage space. Okay, Speaker 1 15:31 so the sink, the sink you have at 33 inches is that Paul McAlary 15:35 I have a 33 inch sink base. So if you were to get an undermount sink or a farm sink, that would be a 30 inch pharmacy. You could fit a 31 inch undermount sink in a cabinet that's 33 where you're gonna get an undermount sink or did you want to farm sink or what kind of sink? Speaker 1 15:54 Yeah, I was gonna do that really pretty white farm sink. That's really in that it cascades down. Okay, Paul McAlary 16:02 so do you want me to make it the biggest farm sing? So I'll make it a 36 inch cabinet then for the farm sing? Speaker 1 16:11 Yeah, where that would fit with a dishwasher right there. I guess for some reason, we Paul McAlary 16:16 got no problem with the dishwasher to the left, no problem. The base cabinet that I have, I have a cookie sheet and trach Avnet. That's to the right. It might make your farm sink a half an inch depends off center of the window. If I keep the cookie sheet and tray cabinet that I have to the left. I mean, if it's 128 inches that should work. You should still let you're able to be happy to form six centered, so I'll put that in the Okay, make it a 36 inch form sink. Okay. Speaker 1 16:47 And in that, that, is that proportional to the window size? I mean 30 said, Paul McAlary 16:52 No, that's fine. Okay. I didn't know what kind of window you have. What kind of window is it? Is it a casement window with a conic? Open? Is it a double hung to double hung windows on either side. Monica 17:05 It's just a fixed big huge window, Paul McAlary 17:07 which is the big picture window. Well, the big picture window, if you were half an inch off the center, you would never be able to tell that. Okay, okay, so it wouldn't matter. But you won't, you'll still end up being centered. So I'll send that to you the way I've got these corners, you can make more wall cabinets, if you want to have them come around the corner. Sometimes less is more, having that big, beautiful picture window and then not having cabinets coming over to crowded. You know, I just think it's such a nice look. And we really want storage, you can just turn the corners with the cabinets. With the bottom cabinets, you can have a wall cabinet on the left side of the window. But I definitely don't think you want to do what you had a newer design, which was come around the corner with the cabinets, because that's what's hurting your island. That's what's making it too tight around your island. And that's also making the countertop less usable for you. And it's making a dishwasher open in the wrong way. Speaker 1 18:02 Yes, exactly. Yeah, this is this is one, this is a wonderful solution. And then I do I need to pay attention to symmetry on both sides of the range is that the feeling to an eye, Paul McAlary 18:17 I would tell you that everybody that works for me disagrees with me that they all want symmetry. So they would center the stove, it's definitely less functional. Ideally, you know, if you're really a chef, having a 10 foot long piece of countertop to the left is such a great work area and it's right in between your sink and your stove. So you can wash vegetables, you have a 10 foot piece of countertop the cut and chop, not going to be 10 Because you're getting a 48 inch stove. So it's going to be more like eight and a half but to have eight and a half linear feet of countertop will work at on the left. And then you know on the right hand side you'll have 30 inches 30 inches is totally fine. You can turn the handles of the pots and pans out over the 30 inches, you can put some spices over there, but it won't be an area where you're working. If I center you're stuck on the whole thing. Now you'll get total cemetery that you like. However, now the stove won't be in back of the island anymore. And it will just be symmetrical with the wall and then when you turn around from the stove, like the great thing now is you turn around from the stove you have the island right in the back of you, you turn around from the stove. If I center the stove on the whole wall there, you turn around from the stove, you'll be right the corner of the island will be there and it won't be as natural a place to turn around and work at or whatever. But you can play around with it. You can when you go to a kitchen designer or you get to a place of doing the cabinetry. They'll put everything on the computer for you and you can see it both ways and you can decide what you like. I think it looks one Wonderful, it looks fine when things aren't all matchy matchy and symmetrical, as long as the doors on either side of the stove are all the same size. So the wall cabinet doors, you know, you don't have one really big door on the right side of the hood, and then a real narrow door on the left side building. But as long as the doors are all the same size, then the hood area looks good. And then I'd rather have you know, my stove more centered on my island personally, and a big long length of countertop to work at. But that's just my own personal thing. I'm a more functional verb form person. But the other designers, for me are the opposite. They'll sacrifice function for form. Okay, Speaker 1 20:43 no, I this is a wonderful, wonderful layout. You don't have anybody in Southern California that? No. Paul McAlary 20:52 Southern California is I've already I've we've looked lots of times, and it's been very hard to find somebody, because a lot of times talk about form over function in Southern California. They don't even think about function. So. So the issue is that when we try to find good kitchen designers, and we're looking at their work on like house.com, is the way we sort of go to find people we can recommend in other areas, there's so many bad designs that we see, because they're ultra modern. And they're not obeying any function rules or anything else. They're breaking all kinds of kitchen design rules, they might have done that for the customer's request or whatever. But it's certainly not proving they know what they're doing to us. So it makes it hard. But if you want to give it a shot and see if I can, you know, take a look in your area and see if I can find someplace that we might be able to recommend me to give it a shot. Speaker 1 21:51 I mean, that would be great. I because I really I've gone to a couple places. But yeah, they haven't been very helpful. So I had an individual woman come to my home then rep some cabinet lines. I don't know anything about her is that Paul McAlary 22:06 I mean, that might be an okay. I mean, there's some people that are reps are dealers or smaller companies that are they actually sell kitchen cabinets. And their dealers were a few different brands. And they're sort of independent kitchen designers. And they can be good only because maybe they work for their other people for a long time. And they started their own company based on no portfolio or based on the contacts they made over the years. And then they got different cabinet brands to let them be the dealers for them. So some of these very small places can be good. And that designers can be experienced. And they're going to be usually pretty reasonable for cabinetry, because they have a lot less overhead. I don't know we can look her up if she has a house page. Speaker 1 22:57 So I could Yeah, he calls herself the kitchen lady. I could see the house to eat Paul McAlary 23:03 or might have seen the kitchen lady on the house. So Speaker 1 23:08 when I typed in kitchen lady.com She came up. Do you do? Yeah. Her name is Priscilla. Okay. Paul McAlary 23:16 Oh, see kitchen lady got her gallery page. Monica 23:20 Yeah, to see if anything strikes you as you can see it all with like white oak cabinetry, it Paul McAlary 23:29 might be good. I looked at her kid, she might be very reasonable. I looked at her kitchens, and they were all fine. So there's no mistake when anything. And then the brands that she's a rep for she's an authorized dealer for Master brands, which is a big, gigantic company, Master brands isn't going to let anybody be a dealer that they're not confident in, you know, as a business owner, etc. So and then, you know, the Cora is a great brand, it's going to be about the same price as KraftMaid or something like that. A little bit on the more expensive side. She's got a really expensive custom cabinet brand that she carries, which is plain and fancy. But she also has Schrock and some other cabinet brands. I don't see any brands that she carries that are particularly very reasonable. It's also probably has a business model that's not that expensive. So okay, you might give her she might be a good person to give a shot. Speaker 1 24:33 Okay, and is omega that's one is omega good cabinet. Yeah, Paul McAlary 24:38 omega is a great cabinet it oh, you know, probably why she carries omega is that master brands board omega. So omega, the same price as the core. You know, a lot of times if you're a cabinet dealer, we don't carry two brands that are sort of the same price, because you're you know, you're not filling a niche like Schrock is less expensive than the core flip. went and plain and fancy is way more expensive than omega and decor. Although Omega has some omega has their inset cabinets are pretty expensive, but that's probably why she's got omega, they do some inset cabinets that would be in between the price of decor and plain and fancy. And Canyon Creek. I'm sure we review Canyon Creek, Canyon Creek, framed and frameless. It's a level four. So that's a pretty middle price cabinet brand. And maybe a tiny bit less than the core. I don't see any brands that she's got listed that are like really reasonable brands that are well made. Like we have a fabby what is one of the inexpensive brands we carry, or out on the West Coast pro craft would be a very reasonable cabinet brand that's very well made. I don't see her listing any of those kinds of brands, she just has cabinet prices from higher middle price cabinets up to very expensive cabinets. But it also doesn't mean once you selling master brands, she might sell Homecrest Homecrest is a master brand cabinet line that's well made and relatively inexpensive. Speaker 1 26:14 Okay, he doesn't listen. Yeah, cuz I think I think their cabinets for omega, she roughly said, We're gonna cost me 50,000 For all the cabinetry. Yeah, Paul McAlary 26:25 so that's a lot of money for the cabinet you got in your kitchen. Like if I look at your kitchen, and you were to get a higher price cabinet brand, you know, make is a little bit more than decor. But if you did decor or something like that, and the design that I have, which is a little bit less cabinetry than you had in your design, you're also in a very high priced area. So you're a much higher price area than we are. So around here. Your kitchen might be in decor $30,000 in cabinets or something like that. But in fact, you would a very reasonable cabinet brand, you might only be 20. What What kind of color and style were you looking for? Speaker 1 27:11 Well, I was looking for the raised panel, something simple, but a raised panel. So Paul McAlary 27:15 Raised Panels a little more traditional. So that's less popular right now, that might put you in a more expensive cabinet brand, only because the inexpensive cabinet brands are going to mass produce only the most popular door styles and finishes. If you're getting a raised panel door that's not that popular. So some inexpensive brands might not offer them. Some of them might depends on the brand, that that'd be a little bit hard to get. But if you found a middle of the road brand, have a color what kind of color Monica 27:53 I really wanted the white oak or Paul McAlary 27:55 the white Oh, well you know what, if you want white oak, now you're in an expensive brand anyway, if it's core so on white oak, which is now even more expensive. Now you might be in a brand that you have to be up in like omega or a brand like that. So you might have to be spending $50,000 So you want a quarter sawn which is you know, the white oak where the grain is very tight because of the way they saw the boards. If you want a quarter sawn white oak from us, you would be in one of the more expensive cabinet brands that we carry. We have one brand that does it inexpensively. But they're not quite as nice as the expensive brands. And even those cabinets would be like $30,000 in cabinetry. But if you were to do your kitchen in quarter sawn white oak in Brighton, which is a custom brand we carry your backup to the $50,000 mark probably almost at least maybe not. But that's what certainly $50,000 for quarter sawn white oak in Southern California is an outrageous number. Speaker 1 29:04 Okay, okay, yeah, cuz it plain and fancy. That took me to 80,000 Yeah, that's Paul McAlary 29:09 plain and fancy is crazy expensive. Monica 29:14 So I told her that was way out of bite. Paul McAlary 29:16 So like if you picked white Shaker door style, right, you could get a really well made cabinet and pro craft in your area, and the whole kitchen would be $20,000 in cabinets, right? But pro craft isn't gonna have any quarter sawn white oak. You're gonna have to go to a much more expensive brand to get that. Monica 29:40 Okay, okay. Paul McAlary 29:42 That's the dilemma too, is that when you're doing all this stuff, it's all the same money. I always think it's better to get the best layout and the best floor plan first, and then splurge on the stuff that you're buying second. I agree. You know, even the 48 inch Wolf range means you got 50,000 dollars at least right? Probably what's the Wolf range. So you got a $15,000 range, it won't cook very differently than a $2,000 range, right, you're just gonna get a second small oven out of it. But you could get a GE Cafe oven with a GE Cafe will have a little oven like a pizza oven on top and a bigger oven down below, it will be a three and a half $1,000 range if it's 30 inches, and I mean, now you've got $12,000 more you can spend on cabinets if you want it to. So that's the rub is figuring out what the stuff is that you want to splurge on. And what the stuff is that you're, you know, you want to save money on. Speaker 1 30:40 Okay. Okay, so is it is it prettier to take your cabinets to the ceiling is that a prettier, I mean, we only have eight foot ceilings. Paul McAlary 30:50 If you have eight foot ceilings, I would definitely have your cabinets go up to seven and a half feet and then have moldings on top to make it the rest of the way. And usually you have a stack molding one flat piece, a lot of times we'll use it upside down baseboard as the flat piece, and then a crown molding on top. And that way, you know particularly you got an addition on your house and the regular party has, if the ceiling is going a little bit out of whack. As you go around the room, the flat piece of molding allows the crown molding to ride up and down and for your ceiling can be off by a half an inch or you know up to an inch in your eye will pick that up. If you were to do something that would be more expensive, which would be to get 39 inch pipe cabinets, and only a three inch molding to reach the ceiling. Not only would the 39 inch cabinets be more expensive, but now you'd have no plan. And then your contractor bid on level your whole ceiling first perfectly with a laser level because you're putting this molding on top of the cabinets, and the cabinets are in level. So if one part of your room is, you know, a half inch off the height of the other part of the room, you'll have a half inch gap between the ceiling and the molding in the other part of the room, which would look terrible. So I would say get the 36 inch high cabinets with the two pieces of molding to get into the ceiling. Okay, perfect. And there's actually even a good thing about that, too, is what's on the back of the wall where your stove is. Is that the outside? Yes. Okay, so then you can go out the back there. If you couldn't go out the back. Then when you have the six inches of molding, people can also run the duct work for the hood over the top of the cabinets behind the moldings to get outside. So if you ever couldn't go out that, you know if the garage was there, or something like that, and back of your stove, you could run the duck we're over the top of the cabinets behind the moldings to get it at the back of the house. Okay. All right. So I'll send you a finisher design. And I'll send you everything you know, probably take me 15 minutes to finish it up. And then you can take a look at it in 3d. And then you can give it to her and see what she can do with it. Speaker 1 33:09 Thank you so much, Paul. I so appreciate all the time you spent. Paul McAlary 33:13 No problem, Monica, thanks for calling into the podcast. Monica 33:17 Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Paul McAlary 33:20 Good Good talking to you. Bye bye. Unknown Speaker 33:21 Okay, bye bye. Mark Mitten 33:23 Thank you for listening to the mainline kitchen design podcast with nationally acclaimed Kitchen Designer Paul Macelleria. This podcast is brought to you by Brighton cabinetry, high quality custom cabinetry at competitive prices. For more on kitchen cabinets and kitchen design, go to www dot mainlined kitchen design.com Transcribed by https://otter.ai